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World Organisation for Modelshipbuilding and
Modelshipsport |
DOKUMENTE/DOCUMENTS |
NAVIGA FSR SECTION MEETING MINUTES, LENO, AUGUST 2008 |
Opening Meeting was opened by Peter Schaft (PS) welcoming everyone present at 20.45. PS went on to report an incident from previous evening. A group of young people was seen throwing stones at the horses. The owner of the premises was very angry because if horses are disturbed at the stables they can get very stressed. PS asked parents to keep an eye on the children to prevent them from going to the horses and the donkeys. There are some very expensive horses kept here and children should be told that they have no right to be there disturbing the animals. PS also referred to a lot of finger pointing going on during the FSR O and H finals earlier in the day. There was however a lot of hard work put into organising. This will be discussed further tomorrow as at the end of the day when people are tired things said can be taken the wrong way. Who will take minutes Peter Schaft requested Katarina Folkson to take minutes. There were no objections. Registration of presence of national federations Following checking of the list by Harry Jaartsfeld it was confirmed the following countries had representatives at the meeting: Australia, Belgium, Bulgaria, China, China Hong Kong, Check republic, France, Germany, GB, Hungary, Italy, Lithuania, Luxemburg, New Zealand, Serbia, Slovenia, Slovakia, Spain, Sweden, The Netherlands, Ukraine, USA . Total of 22 countries were present. Missing: Argentina, Belorussia, Estonia, Finland, Latvia, Norway, Poland, Russia, Switzerland (9) Things from the last period NOISE LIMIT - was discussed at Norway. As the FSR H and O competition have been concluded judges have been able to confirm that the nose limits were observed. V will be reviewed when competition takes place. SAFETY CARD. There may be some questions from 2006? This was discussed further during rule changes. Election of the section leader Ian Folkson (IF) takes over to do proposal and election of FSR section leader. Peter Schaft was proposed by Australia and seconded by New Zealand. No other proposal. USA asked if PS is willing to do another term. Unanimous show of hands confirmed appointment of Peter Schaft as FSR section leader. Election of the sub leader H/V/O PS asked if anyone proposes anyone else? Australia proposes the current sub section leaders. Steve Whenham as FSR O, Harry Jaartsfeld as FSR H and Ian Folkson as FSR V. All 3 sub section leaders are re-elected. World Championships Hungary EC2009 WC2010 1. Questions from Hungary Hungary who is organising next WC in 2010 has requested assistance with deciding how to make a good pre WC race next year. For them it is important to make a pre WC race because it is better for the town and it gives competitor a chance to view the venue before the championships. They are not sure whether they should call it the European Championship and whether that would restrict the numbers too much. They want to make it as big as possible. Various suggestions were put forward to increase the numbers. Ian Folkson suggested make it an open championship and make a big event without any restrictions on number of competitors per country. Peter Schaft suggested that all member countries of Naviga should all be able to attend. Hungary was concerned that western Europe competitors may not want to attend if they feel that host country will have too many competitors and that is why they would like to restrict it in some way also want to keep it very formal and at the same time ensure competition is well supported.. Hungary it is hoping for the similar numbers as the world championships. France made a comment that they should not be too concerned if it is not very well supported. It isn’t that people don’t want to go but it is sometimes difficult to find the time every year. Slovenia believes 7 competitors per country per class is enough. Steve Whenham points out that previous year in Leno there was no restriction on numbers and it made a good competition. Conclusion was that competition should be open for all Naviga member countries and it should not be any longer than 1 week. WC in 2010 will be in the first 2 weeks of August. The Spa is going to be closed to the public for that period of time. Peter Schaft confirmed from his visit to the area that it has as well as good competition lake, good food, excellent swimming pools and children’s play areas. Hungary wanted confirmation that WC should be split running FSR –V and FSR H,O as separate competitions from beginning to end. Peter Schaft confirmed that this is not for discussion at this time and yes it should be split as it was in Italy. UK requested clarification as to whether it can never be joint back together. Peter Schaft confirmed that we are not discussing joining the competition back together this time. Ian Folkson stated there were more competitors this year than ever before. There was no proposal that this should be discussed. So competition remains split. Break Proposals Section sent out to the member countries and representatives from the Section FSR by e-mail On the 24th June a letter was sent requesting countries to put forward any proposals for rule changes etc. No communications have been received. Point 3.1.2. Entry Fee Peter Schaft put forward a section proposal to raise entry fee for the championship competitions. Proposal is: Seniors: EUR 20.00: EUR 15.00 for organisers, EUR 5.00 for the section Juniors: EUR 15.00: EUR 10.00 for organisers, EUR 5.00 for the section USA wanted to know how the fee is arrived at. Their concern is that we are still not covering the cost. Peter Schaft clarified it is based on cost of medals. The prices are increasing and so suggest price of entry is increased. It is also expensive for organisers of championships to pay for judges’ accommodation and food. Have a view that fees have to be increased. The current increase is considered sufficient. Proposal to increase fees was supported by majority of countries present. Point 3.2.1(2) Age Groups Proposal is to remove Junior 35 cc class. The 35cc boats are really fast and should only be raced by senior competitors. UK suggests that that age is raised to 15 from 12 where it is currently. Jurgen Tietze, pointed out that the 15cc are just as fast but juniors are allowed to race. The rule was 12 years for 35cc and 15cc. In response to this suggestion it has been pointed out that weight to speed ratio is considerably higher in 35cc which makes it much more dangerous. Bulgaria objected to removing junior’s 35cc class. France suggested that 35cc can be considered a weapon even in the hands of a good driver. Consider it uncomfortable to run the boat with a rescue boat and crew on the water. He does not want to hand a transmitter to a junior. Juniors can wait until they get to the senior level, but they don’t need to go there straight away. Proposal to remove 35cc class for juniors was supported by all but 1 country (Bulgaria) Point 3.3.4 Radio Frequency 2.4GHz will only be allowed if the country organising the championships has given permission to use it. Hungary advised they are not aware of any issues at the moment with use of 2.4GHz. Australia requested clarification as to whether there would be request for special permission to use it for the WC? 35 MHz is also outside the allowance for most countries. It was also mentioned that a recent FIA event had permission in Italy. Ian Folkson pointed out that it is sometimes very expensive to get extra frequencies but countries will be trying to accommodate everyone. There is also a decision pending in front of EC commission considering banning use of 2.4 GHz. Peter Schaft added that in The Netherlands it is allowed but in Italy it was not possible to get the official document to allow use for the period of the championships. Ezio Cassini made a point that, if the championships was in Australia, we will all have to obey by their rules applicable in that country. Whilst everyone is in Italy rules applicable here have to be observed. Whilst FIA may have had special dispensation this was not possible here and FIA are no authority. Peter Schaft closed discussion and rule will be amended to refer to use of 2.4 GHz where country is able to accommodate it within local rules applicable. Point 3.4.6. Registration of competitors and models Spare boat should be in race ready condition for registration. Spare boat should not be just an empty hull where no standard checks can be made. It must be ready to race. This rule has not been observed. Steve Whenham has requested clarification on what is purpose of this section of the rules? Peter Schaft explained that if the boat is not built safety of the boat for racing cannot be checked. Further question was raised as to why would part build boat that required engine and radio equipment to be moved not be sufficient? UK expressed concern again as to what the reasoning is for the above requirement. Why can a spare boat not be accepted without radio, engine and fuel tank? General agreement was that this is what the rule currently states but maybe this should be amended? Jurgen Tietze pointed out that the strict wording of the rule is that you can take 2 boats to preparation area but only one to the pontoon. Australia suggested that if boat is damaged it can be completely rebuilt and none of the parts originally checked at registration are there. France pointed out that if there is objection to that rule a change should be proposed and discussed at next section meeting. For now the rule requires fully built boat. At registration the carburettor needs to be checked that it works, that attachment is ok. USA - hobby is competitive and expensive. If it cannot be solved tonight it should be discussed that there is stage to which the boat can be build before it can be registered as spare boat. Peter Schaft - over the years has looked at boats that are brought as spare boats. Peter is of the opinion if you bring spare boat it needs to be complete. UK questions reasons for requirement that boat is built to racing specification. It does not seem to be relevant. Things that are checked at registration should be completed but everything else should be able to be transferred from one boat to the next. Ian Folkson suggested that proposal is formulated before next championships with minimal requirement of stage of building a model to be able to register it as a spare boat. NZ - Transmitter is checked at registration but not marked that it is ok. There is no evidence to say the transmitter is ok or that that is the one that was checked. Strict application of this rule was voted against and point should be reviewed and revised rule put forward for next section meeting in Hungary with details of the stage to which boat should be built to be able to register it as a spare model. Point 6.5 (22) g. Yellow safety card The current safety rule is issuing a yellow card for breaches of safety rules. This does not seem to be working very well because there are problems with recording who was given yellow card in one heat and carried it thorough to the next. It creates additional administration for the judges. Peter Schaft has put forward a proposal that the yellow safety card is replaced with “ stop and go “ penalty. This would mean that if a judge has issued a competitor with a stop and go penalty they would have to bring the boat back to the pontoon, turn off the engine and start again to continue the race. Stop and go penalty would be given for the following situations: FSR –V - passing the rescue boat or the pontoon too close and too fast FSR – O – passing the pontoon too close too fast FSR – H – passing the pontoon too close too fast will mean an extra lap to complete the race. Ian Folkson, clarified the problem in noting the yellow card because it is meant to be carried over from 1st heat into the next. Alternative “stop go” penalty is immediate, does not carry over to next heat. It will make the race safer, yellow card / safety card is not being noted by competitors. France already uses this system. Steve Whenham suggested we need to also decide how many stop and go penalties will you be allowed in one heat? Otherwise you can continue to drive recklessly to make up the missed time. Australia was concerned about how does the judge measure the distance from pontoon or the rescue boat. Ian Folkson responded that judge needs to be consistent not necessarily accurate. France confirms it is a good system. It gives you an opportunity to calm down, discuss with judge etc. Luxemburg – safety for people in the rescue is most important the safety measures in place are not making it safer for them. Ian Folkson suggest that maybe if you have 2 stop and go penalties in the heat you should be out of that heat. Sweden – in respect of offshore racing even just 1 stop and go penalty will mean that you are out of the race, you will not qualify. Steve Whenham was concerned that whilst we all know about danger of the rescue boat and pits has anyone thought about the fact that the judge is not watching the race whilst he is issuing a penalty and they should each be given a runner to deliver the decision to competitor . USA – If you have 3 extra penalty laps you are out of the race. It does not matter how this is done but the judges should be consistent. Why not just keep it a penalty lap system and you remove the competitor after predetermined number of penalties. USA were concerned that you are creating other safety problems in the process of removing boat from the water and re-launching the boat because of stop go penalty. Ezio Casini pointed out that the life of the people in rescue boat is more important than the competitors race. Germany believe that in FSR-O one lap deduction is better than stop go penalty. For FSR-V v it would be applicable but for O it may be difficult. France there should be a time on stop go penalty. Competitor should be given time to think because you need to calm down before they are re-launching the boat. Some further discussion took place regarding within how many laps should the boat be brought in and that stop and go penalty cannot be appealed because it is immediate. The safety card could be formally appealed at the end. Discussion was closed and revised proposal was put forward for the vote: H – extra lap for safety rule breach, when 3rd penalty has been issued competitor will be told to bring the boat in and take no further part in that heat. O – lap deducted for safety rule breach, when 3rd penalty has been issued competitor will be told to bring the boat in and take no further part in that heat. V – stop and go penalty applies for safety rule breaches. Once competitor has been informed by the judge that they have received a stop and go penalty they will have to immediately bring the boat back to the pontoon, put it on the stand, stop the engine, restart and resume the competition. When the 3rd stop and go penalty has been issued to the same competitor they will be told to bring the boat in and take no further part in that heat. Above revised proposal was put forward by Ian Folkson and seconded by USA. Voting takes place Everyone present agreed to the rule change as above. AOB 1. Roger Brooks from Australia wanted to raise a few points and was given 5 minutes taking time. Competitors who came from outside of Europe have to travel a long time and a practice lake is very important to them. They found it very difficult not to have a practice lake in Italy. Competitors from outside Europe also fee that they need more encouragement from Naviga. Also juniors should be supported. The rules regarding boat registration numbers are different for each country. There should be some tolerance about where the numbers are and competitors should not be disqualified after the boat has been registered. Competitors should be allowed to start engine somewhere in the competition area without radio. There should be a location further away designated for that purpose. Peter Schaft explained that 200 meters away from the pits you can clear the engine out. This is already in the rules. Roger Brooks concluded with lets make Hungary championships a happy competition. Please make it a good competition and support the people who are travelling the long way. Hunary representative commented that they have a practice lake Peter Schaft pointed out that Italy did have a practice lake but unfortunately it dried up. There was nothing that could be done. 2. China Hong Kong – pointed out that the course is not parallel to the pontoon for the FSR –V competition. Peter Schaft promised to check how it is set up next morning. 3. Germany – the transponder line is only 25cm up from the water. This should higher up, there should also be a higher freeboard. Need put the ideas into a proposal format and present at next meeting. Rescue boat sitting on the right of the pontoon for the FSR –V is the dangerous position. On the left side of the pontoon is much better it can be noted as you are driving the boat down the left hand side. Boat sitting on the right is often a surprise. Peter Schaft explains that it might be difficult to do it because of transponder wire. It is a job of mechanic to explain where the rescue is. 4. Great Britain – there was no frequency control during the week of FSR H and O and there have been problems. In Norway there was someone checking that the radios have been switched off as competitors were leaving the pontoon. This might require an extra person which is sometimes a problem but maybe a judge on that side of the pontoon should check that radios are switched off. Junior hydro - there was enough competitors for championships entered for the competition but as they did not turn up race became a world cup and not championships competition. This does not help to encourage juniors. If people pull out at the last minute it should still be a World Championship. 5. Bulgaria requested training schedule for next day. Ezio Casini went to obtain copy of training schedule. 6. Sweden – there are problems with the rule book. It is a mess. There are inconsistencies. The rule book should be rearranged and broken into sections concerning details about the model, details about organisation of championships section and competition rules section. Book needs to be organised better as it is not easy to refer to this is essential. There have been a lot of changes and the book should be tidied up. Peter Schaft suggested that we will need to make a new book for all classes because there have been a lot of changes. Peter Schaft will also discuss with Naviga putting the rule book on the internet. 7. USA – There should be an announcer calling people to the pontoon and into the preparation area. This way you ensure people are ready and on the pontoon on time. Second item; how are frequencies and radios going to be controlled? 2.4 GHz may solve the problem but at the moment if you leave the radio switched on it can interfere with someone who is currently racing. In the USA you need the clip and you cannot race without it . USA agree with the point made by Great Britain that they should be allowing juniors to race for World Championships title even if there are not enough of them turning up. Closing Meeting is closed at 22.50. by Peter Schaft |